- Content is material marketers produce, such as signage, advertising, blogs etc.
- Channels are the vehicles you use to get content out to the world, such as TV, radio, print, outdoor, banner ads, social media, email etc.
- Aligning your channels and content gets the right message to the right person at the right time. It also allows for personalization. There is no one-size-fits-all message. Consumers expect better than that and we as marketers must deliver.
- Content can be aligned by persona or by customer journey stage. As a refresher, the journey stages are “See, Think, Do, Grow, Give.”
- Channel and content alignment is the fourth actionable component of Iterative Marketing.
- There are two different ways to purchase advertising and acquire these channels: 1) buying ad space 2) buying an audience
- Traditional media buying uses ad space in publications, for example, as a proxy for the audience you are trying to get in front of.
- Digital media buying allows marketers to use third- and first-party data to buy direct channels of communication to an audience.
- Learn the difference between first- and third-party data.
Charity of the Week:
Six Actionable Components are the actions we take as marketers to implement Iterative Marketing. They don’t have to be implemented all at once. They are:
- Brand Discovery: Uncover how your buying audience feels about your product or service and how they rationalize the decision to buy.
- Persona Discovery: Document the individuals involved in the buying process in a way that allows us to empathize with them in a consistent way.
- Journey Mapping: Plot the stages and paths of the persona lifecycle, documenting each persona’s unique state of mind, needs and concerns at each stage.
- Channel and Content Alignment: Align every piece of content and marketing channel/activity to a primary persona and primary marketing stage, identifying new channels and content needs where opportunities exist.
- Experimentation and Optimization: Conduct thoughtful experiments designed to produce statistically significant business insights and apply the results to optimize performance.
- Reporting and Feedback: Report and review data and insights to drive decisions in content and strategy, as well as information to be used by the organization as a whole.
We hope you want to join us on our journey. Find us on IterativeMarketing.net, the hub for the methodology and community. Email us at [email protected], follow us on twitter at @iter8ive or join The Iterative Marketing Community LinkedIn group.
The Iterative Marketing Podcast is a production of Brilliant Metrics, a consultancy helping brands and agencies rid the world of marketing waste.
Producer: Heather Ohlman
Transcription: Emily Bechtel
Music: SeaStock Audio
Onward and upward!
Steve Robinson: Hello Iterative Marketers, welcome to the Iterative Marketing Podcast where each week we give marketers and entrepreneurs actionable ideas, techniques, and examples to improve your marketing results. If you want notes and links to the resources discussed on the show, sign up to get them emailed to you each week at iterativemarketing.net. There you’ll also find the Iterative Marketing blog and our community LinkedIn group where you can share ideas and ask questions of your fellow Iterative Marketers. Now let’s dive into the show.
Hello everyone and welcome to the Iterative Marketing Podcast, I’m Steve Robinson and with me as always is the amazingly delightful Elizabeth Earin. How are you doing today Elizabeth?
Elizabeth Earin: I’m good. How are you?
Steve Robinson: I’m doing great, doing great. You know that most of our listeners don’t know but you’re located in Coeur d’Alene, Idaho.
Elizabeth Earin: I am. Northern Idaho.
Steve Robinson: I’m in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. What brought you to Coeur d’Alene?
Elizabeth Earin: I was living in California pretty much my entire life and found that I just kept moving further and further away from cities and got to a point where it was desert or I had to stop moving. So I started looking around and some friends had told me about Coeur d’Alene and I came up for a visit, and by the end of my one week vacation had made an offer on a house and decided to move up here.
Steve Robinson: Well, it is absolutely gorgeous. If you’ve never seen it, those of you listening need to take a moment and Google Coeur d’Alene, Idaho and then go to the Images view, it is just breathtaking. So I am jealous.
Elizabeth Earin: It’s great. Really the only season that is not just purely wonderful is Spring which works out really well because that’s when everyone takes all their vacations. So summer we’ve got the lake, winter we have skiing, and in fall we’ve got every imaginable fall color that you could find.
Steve Robinson: In beautiful Milwaukee we have beer and cheese.
Elizabeth Earin: Those are pretty nice things to be able to claim as your own.
Steve Robinson: That’s true. We do have a phenomenal art museum and we get every season too, but there’s something about Milwaukee that makes you fall in love with it. What are we talking about today?
Elizabeth Earin: Today we are talking about aligning your content and your channels.
Steve Robinson: Great! So, I think it probably makes sense to talk about what we mean when we say content and channels.
Elizabeth Earin: I think that’s a good place to start. Talking about content or talking about the stuff we are producing, the signage, the advertising, the blogs, kind of anything that we’re creating and then putting out to the world.
Steve Robinson: Okay. And when we talk about channels we’re talking about the vehicles for getting that stuff out to the world. So we are talking about anything from TV, print, radio, on through digital channels like social media and banner ads and even rudimentary things like signage or contract verbiage and stuff like that, right?
Elizabeth Earin: Um-hmm. Now, I think you know obviously if we’re going to produce something we’re going to put it out there, but why is it important for us to really kind of give a little bit of extra thought and making sure that we’re putting the right content on the right channels and that’s really what we’re going to get into today, and so Steve kind of jumping off here, what do you think is one of the most important reasons we need to align our content and our channels?
Steve Robinson: Well I think that today we have gotten accustomed to getting on demand what we need when we need it, and so if you flip that around as a marketer, now marketers are required to deliver what people need when they need it, and so to really have effective communication, you have to be delivering essentially the right message to the right person at the right time. You can’t just create a one-size-fits-all message and blast it out to the world anymore, because as consumers we expect better than that.
Elizabeth Earin: And ultimately getting the right message to the right person at the right time that comes down to just producing more effective communication.
Steve Robinson: It also allows for personalization. When we say personalization we don’t mean down to, “Hello Steve, we know that you live at 1234 Main Street.” No. We are talking about personalization into making sure that messages differ from person to person in ways that are meaningful to them.
Elizabeth Earin: I think that’s a great point. It’s so often I think that I’ve spoken with marketers who have thought, “Well, I have personalized the email, I used the variable field and I added their name.” But then nothing else in that content is resonating with them, it’s not speaking to an immediate need at that point. And so, while, yes we are using their name, we are not personalizing that content to what it is that they need at that point in time, and so I think that’s a very important distinction that you made.
Steve Robinson: And I think it’s important that we don’t just personalize the content. We also have to personalize the channel, right?
Elizabeth Earin: Yes. Now, can you go into that a little bit? Because that I think sometimes can be a little bit confusing as to how you personalize a channel.
Steve Robinson: Well, if you think about it, if we’re creating a different message for different groups of people, different groups of our audience, and then we just simply throw all those messages out on the same channel, then everybody is getting mixed up messages, right? I’m receiving the one that’s supposed to be sent to the 18-year-old woman and the 18-year-old woman is getting the middle-aged man and that’s just no good. So, we have to make sure that our channels are also personalized so that we’re getting the right message out to the right person, and to do that you have to setup the channels to deliver different messages to different people.
Elizabeth Earin: Perfect. And we’re going to get into that in a little bit more depth later in the podcast. But I think kind of the key to doing either of these, aligning your content and aligning your channels, is you really have to do the groundwork first. There’s some leg work that has to be done before you’re able to do this or you are kind of just taking a shot in the dark and you’re not necessarily hitting anything, and that’s that you really need to have your persona development in place and your customer journey mapped.
Steve Robinson: What does persona give us?
Elizabeth Earin: Persona is going to give us that insight that allows us, when I mentioned earlier, the personalized emails, persona is going to kind of tell us some of the things that are internal fears, internal motivations, what it is that that specific person is looking for at that point in time. I’m sorry let me back up, not necessarily that point in time, but the type of message that’s going to resonate best with them based on their own personal needs and wants and desires.
Steve Robinson: That makes sense. And then the customer journey, what is that, how is that different as far as personalizing content?
Elizabeth Earin: Yep. And then the customer journey is where that point in time comes in. So by mapping the customer journey we’re able to say when someone is first hearing about your product, what are some of the things that they’re thinking about, what are some of the questions they have. And so we can address those questions when layered with the persona in a way that really makes sense and speaks in a language and in a tone and working to elicit emotions that we know that that persona is going to respond to, and so it’s the layering of those two to be able to really get that targeted message at the right time and the right place.
Steve Robinson: So, the persona gives us the “who” and then the journey map gives us the context of what’s going on with that person over time as it changes and their relationship to the brand changes.
Elizabeth Earin: Exactly.
Steve Robinson: Do we want to jump into then content or channel first?
Elizabeth Earin: I think we should jump into content because it kind of builds off of what we were just talking about in terms of aligning with the persona and the journey. And I think we did a great summary of it, but I think there’s a little bit more meat there that we probably want to explore.
Steve Robinson: So, when we talk about content, I think the first and foremost thing is again aligning that content with that individual persona and getting at not just their features-and-benefits needs but getting beyond that to what would speak to them on an emotional level.
Elizabeth Earin: Yes. We are taking a look at both those internal and external needs and then like you said the emotional what it is it’s kind of going to evoke that emotion that’s going to get them to react, that going to get them to really remember us, and that’s going to help build that brand affinity with us.
Steve Robinson: What about format? Does format have to change at all when you move from persona to persona?
Elizabeth Earin: It does. That’s something that we’re going to want to take into consideration. Again making sure that we’re speaking not only in the right way, but in the right form to people.
Steve Robinson: So, when you say the right form, my mind goes with that is if you have a persona that just doesn’t have any time, they don’t take time to read, they don’t take time to watch anything, you’re not going to want to create a long form video or a long form blog post and expect it to be consumed for somebody who is fairly early in their relationship with the brand.
Elizabeth Earin: Correct.
Steve Robinson: So, when we are aligning the content with the persona, I think it would be good if we came up with kind of a concrete example here. I was talking the other day with a gentleman who owns a car dealership and we were batting these ideas around a bit and one of the ideas that came out was what it would look like to create different content to align with the different personas, and so we talked about a minivan for example, and think about the decision maker behind a minivan is generally going to be a mother or generally a newer mother, and their consideration is going to be very different from a retired man or a teenage college student or something like that, and so if you were to take that into account they have a lot of fears around safety, they have a lot of feelings of love and other things that you would want to tap into.
Elizabeth Earin: Taking a look in the college student versus the mom example, I think it’s probably very clear to our listeners, of course you are going to do different marketing. So I think maybe if we take a step back and we look at two similar people. A 35-year-old mom versus a 35-year-old who is not a mom, they may have a lot of similarities in terms of demographics and in kind of where they are in that life stage, but in terms of to your point, some of the things that they’re concerned about and the things that they’re thinking about that’s going to vary, and that’s where that persona development really can be helpful because it helps to put that down on paper and really define what those differences are, so that when you are designing some of this content and creating this content you are able to keep that in mind and you always have a very, very clear picture of what it is that you are, who you’re designing for, who you are writing for, and what it is that you’re trying to accomplish.
Steve Robinson: I think it probably makes sense to talk about journey stage next. So we’ve aligned with the persona, but that persona’s relationship with that brand changes over time, and I guess taking a step back, the best way to, I think we probably need to introduce the framework that we use to talk about that relationship and how it changes over time. And the framework that we use is one that we got from a guy by the name of Avinash Kaushik, and it’s called “See, Think, Do,” and then after that he has tacked on “Care” as well, and we tacked on a couple of different stages that we used for our purposes, but See, Think, and Do are pretty straightforward, and Avinash looks at it from the context of the consumer, the buyer, and what’s going on in his or her mind at each stage. If you want to come back to this car example, if we were to look at who would be in the See audience or the See group of our target audience they’re going to be the people that would see our advertising, see our branding, but they’re not going to do anything else because they are qualified to have a driver’s license, they drive, but they are not currently looking for a new car or even thinking about a new car right now, maybe they just bought one, maybe it’s just not top of mind right now, and then if you take a look at the Think audience, the Think audience changes a bit there because in the Think audience, now not only do I qualify as a potential driver of a car but now I’m starting to think about a new car. So maybe I’m noticing more the cars that are on the road, maybe when a car ad comes on TV I actually tune into it instead of just tuning out, but I have no defined timeframe in which I am going to take action. No need to buy at the moment. And then when we move into the Do audience, this is where there’s a sense of urgency or there’s a time frame associated with it, so maybe the check engine light came out in my car and I know that it’s going to cost more to repair than it will to replace it and now is the time. Maybe my lease is coming up. There are a lot of different events that could trigger that, but you move from thinking about buying a new car to actually shopping for a new car. Did I explain that pretty well?
Elizabeth Earin: You did. And I think one thing I am going to diverge here for a second that I think is important to note is that we as marketers don’t have control when that Do stage is going to happen. In my own personal example, the car that I had in college, what prompted me to get a new one, totally legitimate reason I’m sure, but I was driving down the road and I turned on my windshield wipers and one flew off and I was like that’s it, I’m done, that was my breaking point with the car, I just didn’t want to go on any further and I went out that week and I bought a new car. There is no marketer in the world who could ever have anticipated that my windshield wiper, a what, maybe $15 part flying off my car would be what prompted me, and that’s what’s so important about this customer journey mapping is that we never know what is going to necessarily prompt someone to move to that next stage. We can put great content out there but it’s really up to the individual’s internal needs and wants and desires and where they are that’s going to move them forward, and that’s why it’s so important that we create content that keeps each one of those stages in mind because again we never know when someone is ready to make that jump.
Steve Robinson: Unless you’re going around loosening people’s windshield wipers, you really don’t have the ability to move people from one stage to the next, it’s really catering to their specific needs which you would get from the persona, right? That’s how you understand what their needs might be at each stage.
Elizabeth Earin: And I think that’s another important point is that the customer journey is always going to be within the frame of the persona. You’re always going to create that with them in mind and you are going to have a different customer journey for every persona that you have.
Steve Robinson: When we align our content with See, Think, and Do, the content is going to be a little bit different for See than it will be got Think or Do, right? If I am targeting somebody in See I’m really not going to get into the nitty-gritty of why my brand or product is the best because you know what they’re not really shopping for my brand or product right now, they’re not even thinking about it, instead I need to focus on entertainment and focus on informing them in ways that are important to them at that See stage because coming back to the car example, if I drive a car I might be concerned about how to care for my car, anytime I might be concerned about better gas mileage, different ways I can change my driving, other things like that, and I’m always going to love dogs driving cars or other fun entertainment, hamsters driving cars, other fun things like that, but I’m not concerned about the safety features or the five-star crash test rating or other stuff like that because I’m not in market.
Elizabeth Earin: Exactly.
Steve Robinson: As we move to Think then that stuff becomes more relevant and certainly when we get to do it, it changes the game as well, and we will touch on that again when we start talking about channel because it also ties into channel I think. Do you want to kind of sum up where we are at on the content?
Elizabeth Earin: Yeah, I think about really where this becomes a powerful tool, as I mentioned earlier, is really when you combine both of them, both personas in customer journey mapping to align with your content and that’s true of your channels as well, and so if you create content for a given persona at a given stage in the journey the question then becomes how do you deliver it so it gets to the right person at the right time, and that’s a challenge that each of us as marketers face every single day, probably keeping us up at night too, and so that’s where our channel alignment comes in and that’s what we’re going to talk about right after the charity break.
Steve Robinson: Excellent. So without further ado let’s talk about how we can help some people.
Elizabeth Earin: Before we continue I’d like to take a quick moment to ask you Iterative Marketers a small but meaningful favor and ask that you give a few dollars to a charity that’s important to one of our own. This week’s charitable cause was sent in by Ray Markey of Dynamic Air Quality Solutions. Ray asks that you make a contribution to Solutions for Change, an organization dedicated to equipping families with the skills, knowledge, and resources needed to put an end to generational poverty and homelessness. Learn more at www.solutionsforchange.org or visit the link in the show notes. If you would like to submit your cause for consideration for our next podcast please visit iterativemarketing.net/podcast and click the Share a Cause button. We want to support what’s important to you.
Steve Robinson: And we’re back! Okay, so before the break we were talking about aligning your content with your personas and your journey stages and then we kind of got into the question of well, okay, so all of your content is now very specific to a specific persona at a specific journey stage. Now what? Now how do we get it in their laps at the right time?
Elizabeth Earin: And that’s where channel alignment comes in. Before we dive too deeply into channel alignment I think we first need to address that there’s two different ways that we can purchase our advertising and acquire these channels and that’s buying ad space versus buying an audience. Steve, do you want to talk a little bit about buying ad space?
Steve Robinson: Sure. If you think about buying media and this is the traditional way the media is bought. So it’s basically using the publication as a proxy to get to my audience. I know my audience likes sports and they’re watching ESPN, therefore if I advertise in ESPN my advertising will reach my audience, and that’s the way media has been bought for years and years and years. Now digital sort of changed that game didn’t it?
Elizabeth Earin: It did. It really changed kind of how we’re getting in front of the people that we want to be in front of. Digital allows us to buy those direct channels of communication to an audience. So we’re buying their eyeballs as opposed to trying to kind of buying this ad space that we hope will touch some of them. We can be very specific, and digital allows us to do that in terms of some of the different types of targeting that we can do. In terms of digital ad buys we’ve got two different options that we can go with, there’s third party data which is often using behavioral and demographic targeting and we’re buying advertising based on someone else’s database and then you can come back to first party data which is that’s the stuff that we own, and I know you’ve written some really great blog posts about this, the importance of first-party data is a long-term marketing asset, but this is where we’ve been tracking website usage and we’re integrating it with our CRM and we’re able to target those people that have been to our website who are our current customers and people that already have some sort of interaction or touch point with our brand.
Steve Robinson: And we’ve got a great blog post out on the Iterative Marketing blog about first and third party data that Heather Ohlman wrote. We will link to that in the show notes if people want to learn more about that, but I think you’re right. The key is that we have the ability to buy the audience directly, buy access to that audience directly through some data that allows us to put ads in front of them regardless of where they are on the internet, what publication they happen to be reading, and it’s a very different way of going about reaching that audience and certainly definitely more powerful. The question becomes how and when can you use each one of these. When you need to buy through a publication and when do you need to buy direct and then how do you personalize when you’re buying these two different directions.
Elizabeth Earin: I think that’s an important question to address because there definitely is a time and place where See and Think and Do are appropriate and it’s not equal. I think that’s what we kind of want to get into talking about next is when we’re talking about traditional ad space what is the right message, what is the right stage in the customer journey that where we should use this platform to address.
Steve Robinson: When you are talking about traditional ad space here is we have an opportunity to, generally, you can personalize it at the persona level because you can match a persona with a given publication, not always one to one but if you at least focus in on one persona and say this is our primary persona that we are focusing on right now when it comes to developing the content and then this is our primary persona that we are focusing on, on delivering the content then you can figure out which publications best match that individual persona. What you don’t know is where they are in the buyer’s journey. You have no idea whether they’re See, Think or Do, and so to overcome that you have to throw a bit of a mix at that consumer, right?
Elizabeth Earin: I think that’s important is that it needs to be a mix and it’s a great avenue for both See and Think content, and it’s important to note that they can both be on that same channel because we don’t know where necessarily those buyers are in that journey and so by combining a mixture of those two types of messaging we can help kind of reach everyone within that pool.
Steve Robinson: Yeah. And your See content won’t be lost on your Think audience because you’re still going to make that brand impression, and you’re still going to have the cute puppies or the fun entertaining or the emotionally driven type of advertising and getting that name impression out there which builds that trust and affinity. The Think content will be tuned out by your See audience and that’s fine because it’s still reaching the Think portion of the audiences on that channel. The key is you want to avoid the Do type content because your Do stage audience is so small compared to the rest of the people that you’re reaching that it really isn’t the most cost effective means for reaching that Do stage, you’re better off doing that on digital channels or in more personalized channels where you can better identify them.
Elizabeth Earin: So before we jump to digital and we talk about how we can use Do advertising there, can we, going back to our car dealership example, what would be some examples of See and Think advertising that we could use if we were trying to target someone in the market for buying a car?
Steve Robinson: So, in that instance you probably want to focus mostly on, most of your See content would be the things like television advertising, maybe some radio, its interruptive media, so it works really well for getting in front of somebody that isn’t necessarily caring because they are not thinking about your brand.
Elizabeth Earin: Yeah. What do you mean by interruptive? Sorry, I just want to make sure our audience understands what we’re talking about here.
Steve Robinson: Sure. So when you’re trying to reach a See audience you generally want to use a media channel that interrupts that prospect, that consumer because if I intended to learn about your product or service I would go learn about it, but I’m See audience so I don’t have any such intention. If you’re watching television and a TV ad comes on you automatically start watching that ad at least until you can find the skip button on your remote. If you are trying to listen to music on the radio it interrupts the music with the radio advertising. There are some digital interruptive ads too that are great for See stage audience when you have a pop over that comes up on a website that’s an example of an interruptive ad, I’m forced to look at it in order to get past it to get to the content that I want. That’s good for See stage content because if you don’t force the person to look at your ad they have no reason to look at it. They are not in the market for your product or service.
Elizabeth Earin: Right. I think that makes a lot of sense.
Steve Robinson: That’s on the more traditional type of advertising, the stuff that can’t be really, you can’t target based on an individual audience, you can’t buy the audience, you have to buy the publication. When we start buying the audience here’s where we can get really fancy, right?
Elizabeth Earin: Um-hmm. And this is where we can use a combination of See, Think and Do, and can use some of those identified–the signals that we’ve identified to try and help kind of put these people into the right pool so we make sure that they’re seeing the right advertising for the stage that they’re in.
Steve Robinson: Exactly, exactly. So coming back to our car dealership, if we were looking at our See stage content this is going to be mass appeal type content, it’s going to be fun and exciting and we can reach the broadest market we can reach that’s going to be qualified still. Ideally we want to filter out anybody under the age, under driving age and over effective driving age, and hit all of those people with content that is somewhat more mass appeal. We can tailor the content down to the persona so that the little old ladies are getting a little old lady content, and the college students are getting the college student content, and the young moms are getting the young moms content, but it’s going to have a broad appeal across those different audiences. And our key there is really just trying to reach as many people in the most cost effective manner possible.
We are moving to Think stage and now this is where we can identify people who are in Think stage based on their activity, either third party where we can buy audiences from a variety of the different third-party data providers out there, BlueKai, Newstar, Axium, etc. Those vendors will sell you these direct access to these audiences and they even have segments for people that are in the market for buying cars and some other products too. So that’s going to help you identify your Think stage and get that content in front of them, I mean, here’s where you can start talking about some of the features and benefits what they need to be thinking about when purchasing a car or more specifically even the model or platform or type of car that they are looking at, and then Do stage is where you try to really hook them and get them to act now and get them to act with your brand, and so here is where you start introducing things that are a little bit more timely and urgent and pertinent to the actual purchase process. So coming out to the car example we would talk about financing offers and incentives and this ends this week, so you got to get into do this now, that sort of stuff. That’s really Do stage, I have already figured out what car I am buying, I just got to figure out where I am buying it, and you can get at that audience most effectively through first party data. So who’s been in your store, on your website, match up their data from your database with cookies online, there’s technology to do that, it’s creepy but cool, and figure out who’s been interacting with you and get them that Do stage content.
Elizabeth Earin: And I think again similar with our traditional channels, interruptive media is going to be best for our See stage while engagement platforms are going to be better for Think, and so you know again coming back to our example of the mom looking for the minivan, you know we’re talking about features and benefits like See configurations and that type of thing is going to be interesting to them at that level.
Steve Robinson: To kind of sum up the whole episode here, really it comes down to getting your prospects, your potential customers messages that are relevant to not only who they are and how they feel and what they feel and what their needs are, emotional and more tangible but also where they are in their relationship with your brand, where they are in their customer journey, right?
Elizabeth Earin: Yeah, and each of the scenarios that we discussed, customers want messages that are relevant and are based on their needs at that specific point where they are, and as marketers all we can try and do is use the tools that we have and the personas are a great tool and customer journeys are a great tool, and we can use that to make educated guesses, but it’s not until we really start getting into some experimentation which is what we’re going to talk about next week, that we’re able to start taking a look at the results and seeing which are those messages are really resonating and making small changes to our campaigns to try to make them as effective as possible.
Steve Robinson: As Elizabeth said, next week we’ll be talking about optimization which gets into little bit into those experiments and gets into making sure that we’re doing our jobs and we’re actually getting there, we’re the getting the right message to the right person the right time. But until then I hope everyone has a great week and we’ll see you next week.
Elizabeth Earin: Thanks.
If you haven’t already be sure to subscribe to the podcast on YouTube on your favorite podcast directory. If you want notes and links to resources discussed on the show sign up to get them emailed to you each week at iterativemarketing.net. There you’ll also find the Iterative Marketing blog and our community LinkedIn group where you can share ideas and ask questions of your fellow Iterative Marketers. You can also follow us on Twitter. Our user name is @iter8ive or email us at [email protected].
The Iterative Marketing Podcast is a production of Brilliant Metrics, a consultancy helping brands and agencies rid the world of marketing waste. Our producer is Heather Ohlman with transcription assistance from Emily Bechtel. Our music is by SeaStock Audio, Music Production and Sound Design. You can check them out at seastockaudio.com. We will see you next week. Until then onward and upward!